Hi Reader,

We recently had one of Gerta’s favorite podcasters, Julia Martin, and her cofounder, Melanie Bettis, on the Gentle Power Podcast (YouTube | Spotify | Apple). This conversation ended up landing in one of our favorite topic overlaps: that messy intersection between mindset and tactics.

Julia comes from the world of mindset, manifestation, and intentionality. Melanie comes from the world of job search strategy, interview prep, and salary negotiation. Together, they built something where both matters.

A lot of people want negotiation outcomes to be either spiritual or tactical, either energy or scripts, either belief or numbers.

Real life is more annoying than that. It's usually both.

Below are the ideas from the conversation that stuck with us. But first:

1. Your state matters more than most people want to admit.

Julia spent years in tech, including at Google and Twitter, in roles where negotiation was part of daily life at work.

What stood out to her was that the biggest variable often was not the script. It was how she showed up.

As she put it, her preparation was less about memorizing what to say and more about this:

“Can I show up feeling so good and make a real genuine connection with the other side and just believe that the outcome that I want, I’m deserving of and is going to happen?”

That's not how most people prepare.

Most people prepare by rehearsing objections, overthinking phrasing, and trying to sound smart. Julia’s view was that if you walk in feeling grounded, confident, and connected, the conversation itself changes.

She also shared one of the questions she uses to get into that state:

“How would the most confident, poised future self show up to this?”

We liked that because it's simple, but it's not fluffy. It gives you something specific to embody.

We've seen our own clients run into this exact issue. Sometimes they know the tactics, they know what to ask for, they know the wording. And they still can't do it.

That's usually not a tactics problem; it's a state of mind problem.

2. Negotiation starts before the interview, not after the offer.

Melanie’s lens was much more tactical, and one of the biggest points she made is something we talk about constantly too:

“The negotiation starts before the interview.”

We couldn't agree more. When a recruiter casually asks what salary you're looking for, that is not just a casual question. It is part of the negotiation.

Melanie’s advice was to do the research before that first conversation. Then answer in a way that shows preparation without boxing yourself in. She said she likes to “throw it back on them” and see some of their cards.

We especially liked this reframe because it's exactly what many candidates fail to do. They treat the first salary conversation like an administrative detail, when it's actually one of the key moments that can shape the whole process.

3. A lot of people are anchored by what they used to make or what seems "reasonable".

How should people negotiate for numbers that feel much bigger than anything they've made before?

If you’ve been making one number for years, it can feel ridiculous to ask for something far higher, even when the market supports your ask.

Julia’s answer was that belief needs some help. People often need evidence before they can believe a bigger outcome is possible.

That's why success stories and testimonials matter. Seeing someone like you get a much better outcome matters.

Julia referenced the famous four-minute mile example. Once one person did it, many others followed. Not because human bodies changed overnight, but because their beliefs did.

She also shared a concept she uses called the “ladder of believability.”

If someone is making $200K, jumping mentally to a $1.5M comp package may be too large for their brain to accept. But maybe they can believe $300K is doable. Then $350K. Then higher.

That felt especially useful because it gives people a way to expand without forcing themselves into fake confidence.

You don't always need to believe the biggest number immediately.

Sometimes you just need to believe the next one.

4. If you want better outcomes, you have to clear out the stories working against you.

Julia walked us through her DREAMS framework, which she uses to help people manifest goals in a more structured way.

The part that stood out most to us was the reframe step.

Her advice was to write down all the limiting beliefs around the thing you want. All of them. The ugly, anxious, spiraling ones:

• I'm asking for too much.
• It's never going to happen.
• I don't have enough experience.
• I'm not the kind of person who gets this.

Then go one by one and reframe them:

• I CAN be paid this much.
• This can definitely happen.
• I have the experience (and proof) to justify this.
• People like me get these kinds of opportunities.

She described it as both emotional and practical. Emotional because “you feel lighter” when you stop treating every fear as fact. Practical because, in her words, “we’re creating new neural pathways in our brain.”

That's a good way to describe what many people experience in negotiations.

You're not just negotiating with the company. You're negotiating with your own internal story about what they're allowed to ask for.

5. Visualization sounds woo-woo, until you realize how often serious people do it

Julia is a big believer in visualization.

Not vague wishing. Actual mental rehearsal.

She talked about mentally fast-forwarding to the moment your deal closes, the papers are signed, the celebration happens, the room looks a certain way. When you vividly rehearse something, your nervous system starts to relate to it differently.

Alex also shared a relevant story from his military parachuting days.

Before jumps, especially complex demonstration jumps into sports stadiums or air shows, he and his parachute team members would close their eyes and visualize everything. Where they were sitting on the plane. What they would see when they exited. The timing. The sequence. The other jumpers. The moment they deploy their parachutes. The whole thing.

That was not treated as mystical. It was treated as preparation.

We loved this part of the conversation because it made the point clearly: visualization isn't just for vision boards and journals. It's also for elite athletes, performers, military operators, and anyone who needs to execute under pressure.

If you have a big interview or compensation conversation coming up, take five minutes and run how the conversation will unfold in your head first.

But not the disaster version!

The composed version.

6. Being likable isn't fluff, it's leverage.

Julia also made a point that we think gets underestimated in negotiation advice.

A lot of her success comes from genuine human connection.

Her grandmother used to tell her, “To be interesting, be interested.”

Julia’s version of negotiating isn't just walking up and asking for the thing. It's connecting first. Asking real questions. Being kind. Being curious. Taking an interest in the person in front of you.

And importantly, not as a trick, but as an actual way of relating.

She said when you do that, people often want to help you. They feel your energy, they like you, the conversation softens.

Melanie shared a version of this too through a story about helping her husband negotiate an offer. He was ready to accept because the number was already much higher than what he had been making. She pushed him to negotiate anyway.

He got on the phone with the recruiter and framed it collaboratively: “Is there any way you could help me get to this number?”

That little word, “we,” does a lot of work.

It makes the conversation feel shared rather than adversarial.

And in Melanie's husband's case, it worked. The recruiter ended up telling him he could push for even more than he had asked for.

7. Ask. Then ask well. Then stay gently persistent.

This part felt very Gentle Power.

Julia said she asks for hotel upgrades all the time. Why not? If they have the room, it costs them nothing.

But what mattered more was how she thought about persistence.

When Alex asked whether action or belief comes first, Julia said, “I think belief comes first.”

Then comes persistent action.

Not obnoxious pestering or forcing. Just continuing when something feels possible and aligned.

That maps pretty cleanly to how we think about negotiations too.

A lot of people give up after one soft no, or they never ask at all.

But the first offer is usually never the final one. The first answer is usually not the only answer. A gentle follow up, a thoughtful question, a collaborative ask, these things matter.

And when done well, negotiating doesn't make you look difficult. It can actually make you look stronger.

As Gerta shared in the episode, one tough manager later told her that they trusted her with high profile work because she had negotiated her offer well. They took it as a signal of good communication and relational skills.

Negotiation isn't only about what you get. It also shapes how people see you.

This conversation was a good reminder that there's no clean line between mindset and strategy.

Listen to the full episode here: YouTube | Spotify | Apple​

Learn more about Julia and Melanie's work on their site here: WeAreDreamBuilders.com​

Best,

Gerta & Alex
​Co-founders, YourNegotiations.com

P.S. Are you job searching or have upcoming negotiations?

Book a free call with us, where we’ll learn more about your situation, offer some free tips, and explore if we’re a good fit to work together: https://calendly.com/alexhapki/call​

P.P.S. Know someone interested in negotiations?

Send them our way and we’ll thank you with $250 for each person who becomes a client. No cap.

A quick intro or an email to alex@yournegotiations.com works.